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cwo04
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PostSubject: Religion   Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:03 pm

And for the first debate, I start off with a life long debate around the world that will never end. Who is god? Is there a god? I personally don't believe in any of that shit. Yes. That's right. I am a full Aethiest. There is fuck all out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:12 pm

I personally believe god is real. And I also believe in Heaven and Hell.



http://www.zeitgeistmovie./main.htm Watch That.

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html Read That.


My argument stands.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:24 pm

I believe there is a God. Prophecies, evidence, modern-day miracles. It's proof right there.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:08 pm

Modern-Day "Miracles"? Unstudied science in the act.

I'm on agreeance with Cwo.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:27 am

You can't possibly believe that there is ONE god that makes these "miracles" you speak of. Nothing happens planned. Life is just random that only you can change. Consequences are your own fault.

If there was a god that could control the fate of one person/whole world... then why the fuck is there diseases. why is there war. why do people die? why are people dying due to world hunger? why is there racism/sexism/whateverthefuckism.

If there was a god. None of the worlds problems would affect anyone, unless god was some bad ass *Beep* who decides to kill everyone. which according to the bible (tl;dr) would probably be VERT sinful.

Long story short. god does not exist or else he would fix the worlds problems.


Last edited by torn2peices on Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Inapropriate wording.)
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:32 am

If there is/was not a god how did we get here? And don't say evolution simply because same argument for the monkeys or whatever else you could possibly think we came from. And how did all the planets come to be? Don't say big bang cause how was that original mass created?

But overall your point was good and did make me think.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:36 am

I'd rather believe in aliens and shit than god. Why did god make so many different animals? He didn't. They are just mutated creatures of the same form just with different fur/wool/hair/assholes/etc that came from other planets. Not saying that Aliens and other life forms made the planets and human life but they were around long before humans and other animals/gods. Which leads me into another debate being posted right now alien
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:08 am

torn2peices wrote:
If there is/was not a god how did we get here? And don't say evolution simply because same argument for the monkeys or whatever else you could possibly think we came from. And how did all the planets come to be? Don't say big bang cause how was that original mass created?

But overall your point was good and did make me think.

If you don't believe of the Big Bang Theory because of how the mass go there in the first place, then how do you explain god? If there is a god then how could he have been created, and if so, who did it? Is there a god for your god and so on? That leaves an unanswered paradox of gods creating new gods. Personally I believe that there is no god. In the bible it speaks of not believing in the "supernatural", but isn't that what god is? Isn't "god" a being that is invisible to the human eye. Isn't heaven a place in a different paradox that your soul goes to after death. Sounds a little supernatural to me.
All religion has done is cause death and not solve any problems. I mean, for example, look at the pope. The popes for ages would torture and kill hundreds who were not Christians. Christianity is based off the bloodshed of millions. The reason hispanics in Central America are so religious is because their great-great-great-great grandfathers and grandmothers were beaten into submission by priest alike until they accepted your "all helping god" as their own. They had to accept the god that will save them from damnation or die on the spot.
I'd rather stay as an athiest, thank you very much. I find stuff like Scientology, Christianity, Budhism, Hinduism, and Judiasm all the same, but I'm not a crazy athiest. I have no care for what religion you bear, it has no effect on my life, but only your own. Your choice is your choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:58 am

I believe in god. If there is no god then there will be no universe and no living things.. plus I'm the only muslim here Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:22 pm

SheWantsReven wrote:
torn2peices wrote:
If there is/was not a god how did we get here? And don't say evolution simply because same argument for the monkeys or whatever else you could possibly think we came from. And how did all the planets come to be? Don't say big bang cause how was that original mass created?

But overall your point was good and did make me think.

If you don't believe of the Big Bang Theory because of how the mass go there in the first place, then how do you explain god? If there is a god then how could he have been created, and if so, who did it? Is there a god for your god and so on? That leaves an unanswered paradox of gods creating new gods. Personally I believe that there is no god. In the bible it speaks of not believing in the "supernatural", but isn't that what god is? Isn't "god" a being that is invisible to the human eye. Isn't heaven a place in a different paradox that your soul goes to after death. Sounds a little supernatural to me.
All religion has done is cause death and not solve any problems. I mean, for example, look at the pope. The popes for ages would torture and kill hundreds who were not Christians. Christianity is based off the bloodshed of millions. The reason hispanics in Central America are so religious is because their great-great-great-great grandfathers and grandmothers were beaten into submission by priest alike until they accepted your "all helping god" as their own. They had to accept the god that will save them from damnation or die on the spot.
I'd rather stay as an athiest, thank you very much. I find stuff like Scientology, Christianity, Budhism, Hinduism, and Judiasm all the same, but I'm not a crazy athiest. I have no care for what religion you bear, it has no effect on my life, but only your own. Your choice is your choice.

You have a very interesting point. But one thing I would like to point-out you mentioned Christianity based on blood shed, How can you base a whole religion of 1 group of peoples actions. And The pope has nothing to do with Christianity he is the leader of the Catholics which if you would have researched would know Christians and Catholics have no where near the same beliefs (refer to wikipedia). Now onto your beginning, You stated a point I have heard countless times by your fellow atheists that "Is there gods for your god" nothing has been proven justifying anyones point on this debate but let me say this, If animals developed from other animals why aren't they still to this day? And if some animals came from other planets, What planet? Scientists have come to a conclusion that no planets have the correct living environment for man or beast, Beast referring to the animals. So what makes you think that theory is beyond me. And for me explaining how God got there, there is no way for me to prove he was there back then. Nor is there a way for you to prove that he is not. There is simply way too many loop holes that there is now way for scientists to prove that he is un-existing. I am not trying to put down atheists some of my best friends are atheists, But what I am trying to do is kill some points that people may have told you to get you to become atheist.

Point Proven. Continue with debate.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:33 pm

torn2peices wrote:
You have a very interesting point. But one thing I would like to point-out you mentioned Christianity based on blood shed, How can you base a whole religion of 1 group of peoples actions. And The pope has nothing to do with Christianity he is the leader of the Catholics which if you would have researched would know Christians and Catholics have no where near the same beliefs (refer to wikipedia). Now onto your beginning, You stated a point I have heard countless times by your fellow atheists that "Is there gods for your god" nothing has been proven justifying anyones point on this debate but let me say this, If animals developed from other animals why aren't they still to this day? And if some animals came from other planets, What planet? Scientists have come to a conclusion that no planets have the correct living environment for man or beast, Beast referring to the animals. So what makes you think that theory is beyond me. And for me explaining how God got there, there is no way for me to prove he was there back then. Nor is there a way for you to prove that he is not. There is simply way too many loop holes that there is now way for scientists to prove that he is un-existing. I am not trying to put down atheists some of my best friends are atheists, But what I am trying to do is kill some points that people may have told you to get you to become atheist.

Point Proven. Continue with debate.

To your Pope head of the catholic church. The Catholic Church was the only form of Christianity until the mid-1500's when a king wanted to get divorced to his wife, but the Pope refused to let him do so. The King then made his own sect of Christianity. This sect of Christianity changed the laws and allowed people to get divorced as well as other things. To talk about your god theory. Who says that animals aren't still evolving? They've found Gorillas that have learned (without human effort) to use tools to help catch food. Now the thing about animals coming from different planets, now that just sounds ridiculous. I don't go for the spiritual view or the "Well this is WHAT happend duh," view I see it as I see it. I don't believe that their is some giant supernatural creature with superpowers that creates every human and controls everybody's fates (until a different sect of Christianity said we have free will in the mid 1800's). Also remember, this is to Muslims too, that ALL of your faith is based off a book that most Christians scoff. The Hebrew Tanahk is what both of those religions are BASED off of, like it's a fucking story book that they are still writing the ending to. Again no offense to people who believe in Christianity or Islam, but the plain facts are right there. The only reason you believe in this stuff is because you've been spoon-fed this information since you were a child, as were your parents, grandparents and so on. If you take a real look around the world, you'll see how effective your "god" is and how much help and how many miracles he's performing everyday. Miracles only exist in America, where "god" is supposed to care. All 3rd world countries will die out for not believing in the Christian faith.
-Rev

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:57 pm

SheWantsReven wrote:
torn2peices wrote:
You have a very interesting point. But one thing I would like to point-out you mentioned Christianity based on blood shed, How can you base a whole religion of 1 group of peoples actions. And The pope has nothing to do with Christianity he is the leader of the Catholics which if you would have researched would know Christians and Catholics have no where near the same beliefs (refer to wikipedia). Now onto your beginning, You stated a point I have heard countless times by your fellow atheists that "Is there gods for your god" nothing has been proven justifying anyones point on this debate but let me say this, If animals developed from other animals why aren't they still to this day? And if some animals came from other planets, What planet? Scientists have come to a conclusion that no planets have the correct living environment for man or beast, Beast referring to the animals. So what makes you think that theory is beyond me. And for me explaining how God got there, there is no way for me to prove he was there back then. Nor is there a way for you to prove that he is not. There is simply way too many loop holes that there is now way for scientists to prove that he is un-existing. I am not trying to put down atheists some of my best friends are atheists, But what I am trying to do is kill some points that people may have told you to get you to become atheist.

Point Proven. Continue with debate.

To your Pope head of the catholic church. The Catholic Church was the only form of Christianity until the mid-1500's when a king wanted to get divorced to his wife, but the Pope refused to let him do so. The King then made his own sect of Christianity. This sect of Christianity changed the laws and allowed people to get divorced as well as other things. To talk about your god theory. Who says that animals aren't still evolving? They've found Gorillas that have learned (without human effort) to use tools to help catch food. Now the thing about animals coming from different planets, now that just sounds ridiculous. I don't go for the spiritual view or the "Well this is WHAT happend duh," view I see it as I see it. I don't believe that their is some giant supernatural creature with superpowers that creates every human and controls everybody's fates (until a different sect of Christianity said we have free will in the mid 1800's). Also remember, this is to Muslims too, that ALL of your faith is based off a book that most Christians scoff. The Hebrew Tanahk is what both of those religions are BASED off of, like it's a fucking story book that they are still writing the ending to. Again no offense to people who believe in Christianity or Islam, but the plain facts are right there. The only reason you believe in this stuff is because you've been spoon-fed this information since you were a child, as were your parents, grandparents and so on. If you take a real look around the world, you'll see how effective your "god" is and how much help and how many miracles he's performing everyday. Miracles only exist in America, where "god" is supposed to care. All 3rd world countries will die out for not believing in the Christian faith.
-Rev

You made a really good point in that which I will definitely have to look into. But you also made the most obnoxious point yet in this thread. How do you assume that I was so called spoon-fed Christianity? My mom got into church when she was 25. My grandfather is full atheist, My grandmother was raised by a Baptist priest. My mom was raised by he father (My grandfather as mentioned before) so my mom knew nothing of God. She was one of those partier/drinker kind of people (might of known your mom deuce) I was born when she turned 24. I was forced to attend church every Sunday very early and every Thursday mid-day. I dreaded it I was not aloud to hang out with anyone but my fellow church attendees. So when I turned 14 I made a decision to stop attending church. So that statement was biased and very dare I say stupid. But over all your post was very good and informational. But I do have to say that Christianity might just be based off of a book, Or a kings desire to divorce his wife (Which I believe is a load of cow shit.) I believe Christianity is also a load of cow shit. I refuse to allow people to tell me how I should dress or how I should act, What I should believe in. Ya know, Someone who believes in God is not necessarily a devout Christian. There is massive difference in a believer and a Christian. The stereo-typical Christian is how everyone perceives anyone who believes in God, Which is a very idiotic assumption.

Continue Discussion.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:03 pm

torn2peices wrote:
SheWantsReven wrote:
torn2peices wrote:
Bunch of text

You made a really good point in that which I will definitely have to look into. But you also made the most obnoxious point yet in this thread. How do you assume that I was so called spoon-fed Christianity? My mom got into church when she was 25. My grandfather is full atheist, My grandmother was raised by a Baptist priest. My mom was raised by he father (My grandfather as mentioned before) so my mom knew nothing of God. She was one of those partier/drinker kind of people (might of known your mom deuce) I was born when she turned 24. I was forced to attend church every Sunday very early and every Thursday mid-day. I dreaded it I was not aloud to hang out with anyone but my fellow church attendees. So when I turned 14 I made a decision to stop attending church. So that statement was biased and very dare I say stupid. But over all your post was very good and informational. But I do have to say that Christianity might just be based off of a book, Or a kings desire to divorce his wife (Which I believe is a load of cow shit.) I believe Christianity is also a load of cow shit. I refuse to allow people to tell me how I should dress or how I should act, What I should believe in. Ya know, Someone who believes in God is not necessarily a devout Christian. There is massive difference in a believer and a Christian. The stereo-typical Christian is how everyone perceives anyone who believes in God, Which is a very idiotic assumption.

Continue Discussion.

You also have take into effect Christianity in the media. When your mom was raising you, and around the time she converted, Christianity was still huge in media. All the stories in movies and TV shows about how a peron depressed/burdened follows the way of Christ and everything works itself. I'm not saying that Christianity is bad for everybody. It obviously helped your mom out in raising you right. I'm saying the basis for Christianity is absurd in my opinion. The thing about a king creating a sect of Christianity so he could divorce his wife is completely true. I was tought that by an overly religious History teacher and it was in my History book. You see Christianity does not work for me for several reasons
1. I have an I.Q. of 153 or 152 something like that, and I percieve things very differently than most people. I have trouble believing in a higher power as I am very scientific.
2. I was raised by two parents who were raised by Priests. My grandmother is a famous Christian singer actually ( www.jannygrein.com )
3. My sexuality, as I have said to you before my sister is a lesbian, well I am a Bisexual. The rigid abuse of homosexuality in the Christian faith is ridiculous. It is mentioned ONCE in the bible, in one of the 589 commandments (SP?) and Moses actually smashes that commandment.
I also have trouble with raving Christians (I know your not a raging Christian Torn, XD.) I mean the people who stand outside of a military funeral protesting it saying that they deserve to die because god is killing the many because of the U.S.A. supporting homosexuality. These problems with Christianity bother me. If Christianity helps out your life then fine, that's good, I'm glad it does. It's just that Christianity and the concept of "God" baffles me. While the point of spoon-feeding Christianity doesn't involve your mother, it does affect maybe 99% of Christians around the world, and you can't deny that. People see Muslims as our "ultimate" threat, but raging Christians are just as bad, maybe even worse because they are on our homeland.
-Rev.
P.S. This is a great discussion and no matter what the outcome Torn, we'll still be friends.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:05 pm

Faith:
n.

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.

Source
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:21 pm

SheWantsReven wrote:
torn2peices wrote:
SheWantsReven wrote:
torn2peices wrote:
Bunch of text

You made a really good point in that which I will definitely have to look into. But you also made the most obnoxious point yet in this thread. How do you assume that I was so called spoon-fed Christianity? My mom got into church when she was 25. My grandfather is full atheist, My grandmother was raised by a Baptist priest. My mom was raised by he father (My grandfather as mentioned before) so my mom knew nothing of God. She was one of those partier/drinker kind of people (might of known your mom deuce) I was born when she turned 24. I was forced to attend church every Sunday very early and every Thursday mid-day. I dreaded it I was not aloud to hang out with anyone but my fellow church attendees. So when I turned 14 I made a decision to stop attending church. So that statement was biased and very dare I say stupid. But over all your post was very good and informational. But I do have to say that Christianity might just be based off of a book, Or a kings desire to divorce his wife (Which I believe is a load of cow shit.) I believe Christianity is also a load of cow shit. I refuse to allow people to tell me how I should dress or how I should act, What I should believe in. Ya know, Someone who believes in God is not necessarily a devout Christian. There is massive difference in a believer and a Christian. The stereo-typical Christian is how everyone perceives anyone who believes in God, Which is a very idiotic assumption.

Continue Discussion.

You also have take into effect Christianity in the media. When your mom was raising you, and around the time she converted, Christianity was still huge in media. All the stories in movies and TV shows about how a peron depressed/burdened follows the way of Christ and everything works itself. I'm not saying that Christianity is bad for everybody. It obviously helped your mom out in raising you right. I'm saying the basis for Christianity is absurd in my opinion. The thing about a king creating a sect of Christianity so he could divorce his wife is completely true. I was tought that by an overly religious History teacher and it was in my History book. You see Christianity does not work for me for several reasons
1. I have an I.Q. of 153 or 152 something like that, and I percieve things very differently than most people. I have trouble believing in a higher power as I am very scientific.
2. I was raised by two parents who were raised by Priests. My grandmother is a famous Christian singer actually ( www.jannygrein.com )
3. My sexuality, as I have said to you before my sister is a lesbian, well I am a Bisexual. The rigid abuse of homosexuality in the Christian faith is ridiculous. It is mentioned ONCE in the bible, in one of the 589 commandments (SP?) and Moses actually smashes that commandment.
I also have trouble with raving Christians (I know your not a raging Christian Torn, XD.) I mean the people who stand outside of a military funeral protesting it saying that they deserve to die because god is killing the many because of the U.S.A. supporting homosexuality. These problems with Christianity bother me. If Christianity helps out your life then fine, that's good, I'm glad it does. It's just that Christianity and the concept of "God" baffles me. While the point of spoon-feeding Christianity doesn't involve your mother, it does affect maybe 99% of Christians around the world, and you can't deny that. People see Muslims as our "ultimate" threat, but raging Christians are just as bad, maybe even worse because they are on our homeland.
-Rev.
P.S. This is a great discussion and no matter what the outcome Torn, we'll still be friends.


Reply to #1 HOW THE FUCK DOES PEOPLE GET THERE IQ TESTED?!

Reply to #2 Never heard of her <_<

Reply to #3 As you know, I do not believe in homosexuality, Not to offend but I think its absurd how how people defined as homosexuals can be in existence. Again, That statement is not meant to hurt anyone. And that stand point I came to on my own! Do not bring my background in on THIS subject. And theres only 10 commandments, Where did you get 589?

Kinda worthless post but

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:16 pm

Quote :
Reply to #1 HOW THE FUCK DOES PEOPLE GET THERE IQ TESTED?!

IQ Tests.

Quote :
Reply to #3 As you know, I do not believe in homosexuality, Not to offend but I think its absurd how how people defined as homosexuals can be in existence. Again, That statement is not meant to hurt anyone. And that stand point I came to on my own! Do not bring my background in on THIS subject. And theres only 10 commandments, Where did you get 589?

They exist.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:23 pm

[b]Get yourself a Bible and read it. Simple as that all your questions are answered in that book
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:31 pm

tomdude wrote:
[b]Get yourself a Bible and read it. Simple as that all your questions are answered in that book

Not Necessarily have you read the previous posts? People have brought up really good points that I don't think are in the bible. Now mind you I've only read the first 4 or 5 "books" but I have a fair amount of knowledge on the subject. And I have had a-lot of of trouble attempting to answer to some of these statements. Could you give me a chapter and Verse that answers all of these questions?

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:46 pm

The bible is a piece of shit. It was written by so many people that not one piece of it can be trusted to be true.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:50 pm

cwo04 wrote:
The bible is a piece of shit. It was written by so many people that not one piece of it can be trusted to be true.

Wow... Dude. You mine as well just posted this -->

Many of the statements from the bible have come to be. Read it one day and you'll find out that that statement is garbage, as you would say.

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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:05 pm

cwo04 wrote:
The bible is a piece of shit. It was written by so many people that not one piece of it can be trusted to be true.

Listen, you can say it's wrong but you will not call an item sacred to ANY religion "a piece of shit" or any other demeaning word. That was seriously uncalled for.

Staff Edit: Flaming in a way but not as serious as flaming gets, so he will be warned.
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PostSubject: Re: Religion   Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:33 pm

Sorry guys.. I got outta hand. Took it too far. Just expressing my opinion. Shouldnt have called the bible shit. If I was in like... mexico or italy or something I woulda been shot. I'll be more cqareful next time.
Staff Edit: Your not in Mexico tho, your in a forum. Just make sure to not flame and we'll be happy.

CONTINUE DISCUSSION!!!

were gettin' some good points on both sides.
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